tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post5404343964683616830..comments2023-10-05T07:46:44.392-04:00Comments on And Now the Screaming Starts: LOTT D: Toxic assets?CRwMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07896615209770501945noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-53503518449884282042009-04-09T01:02:00.000-04:002009-04-09T01:02:00.000-04:00One more thing - I've seen 'The Virgin Spring' and...One more thing - I've seen 'The Virgin Spring' and, for those of you who haven't, neither the rape, nor the revenge was presented in a remotely exploitative way - the movie went out of its way to be tasteful, and the spiritual element was obviously the aspect Bergman was interested in. It was not a "sop."<BR/><BR/>That said, I didn't find it nearly as interesting as some of Bergman's other films, and Craven's 'Last House' never impressed me much at all, although I actually did kinda' dig 'Night Train Murders.' Don't ask me why.<BR/><BR/>Ebert's review mentions another 'Last House' knockoff called 'Chaos,' which I haven't seen and which he despised. Let's face it, it's an exploitable structure, like 'Halloween.' Filmmakers who are attracted to it probably aren't thinking about giving you anything new - just collecting your money.Gryphonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13089349567470720426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-86565711576427316842009-04-09T00:47:00.000-04:002009-04-09T00:47:00.000-04:00I don't bother much with the "torture porn" stuff,...I don't bother much with the "torture porn" stuff, and not at all with the remakes - and I tend to like extreme films. These current ones simply don't grip me at all. I found 'Hostel,' 'Wolf Creek,' 'Inside,' and 'High Tension' and a few others all to be completely uninvolving wastes of my time. <BR/><BR/>The problem is that they all want to be 'The Texas Chainsaw Massacre' ('74), but they're not. TCM was a fully imagined movie. It hadn't been done before, and what made it effective was that the filmmakers obviously went to lengths to imagine what it would be like to actually be in that situation. These others begin and end at imagining how to recreate or top what they've seen in other movies, and it shows. Plus they tend to have characters who are little more than irritating props to be taken apart bloodily. Yawn! <BR/><BR/>I saw 'Inside' the same week I saw Sam Fuller's PG rated 'White Dog,' and the latter actually had moments that that terrified me, in addition to striking many other unexpected and highly emotional notes, while 'Inside' bored me senseless with 90 minutes of trying too hard. 'Hostel' was a long, dull buildup to one especially ludricrous (and anticlimactic) special effect, 'Wolf Creek' had idiot characters who did things people only do in horror movies, etc. Not scary! It probably doesn't help that I was weaned on films like 'Salo' and bootlegs of 'Cannibal Holocaust,' so I'm not so easily shocked. These recent films seek to engage on one level only, and they fail if you're even a little bit jaded, having nothing else to bring you in.<BR/><BR/>Ebert has seen a lot of movies, and these fans, I presume are kids. I can't blame Ebert for being tired of it all. I'm actually something of a fan of cinematic sadism, and I'm completely disgusted - and not in the intended way. This crap is <BR/><BR/>L-A-Z-Y <BR/><BR/>I-N-E-P-T<BR/><BR/>F-I-L-M-M-A-K-I-N-G.<BR/><BR/>Not with <I>my</I> dollars, do I intend to support such shyte.<BR/><BR/>Imagine if one of these were made by someone with actual skills, instead of by drooling TCM fans like Roth with cameras.Gryphonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13089349567470720426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-46776360192164231862009-04-08T19:47:00.000-04:002009-04-08T19:47:00.000-04:00Sexy is one of the ones that hit me. The other ac...Sexy is one of the ones that hit me. The other actually had some spamblog, that I flagged.Curt Purcellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12580782572650471362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-68528801106167669522009-04-08T07:36:00.000-04:002009-04-08T07:36:00.000-04:00Sexy,Well observed.Sexy,<BR/><BR/>Well observed.CRwMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07896615209770501945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-24745851682119318972009-04-08T06:16:00.000-04:002009-04-08T06:16:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.sexyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00785835090328728639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-16281104592493230882009-04-07T20:35:00.000-04:002009-04-07T20:35:00.000-04:00Screamin' Spacey,Martyrs sounds like a dare. Consi...Screamin' Spacey,<BR/><BR/><I>Martyrs</I> sounds like a dare. Consider it queued.CRwMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07896615209770501945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-33784072529848550762009-04-07T17:23:00.000-04:002009-04-07T17:23:00.000-04:00Once again you've clarified my thoughts better and...Once again you've clarified my thoughts better and more eloquently than I could. At the very least I have to admit that reviewing horror is a total minefield, and I can appreciate some of the difficulties Ebert must face.<BR/><BR/>By the way, I think I've finally seen true torture porn: <I>Martyrs</I> is a rare case where I don't know what to say or even think of it, other than that it seems to be the result of combining Hostel and Passion of Christ (which I haven't actually seen, making this a rather flimsy observation.) It's either innovative or inane, I'm not sure which.spacejackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902182763527176185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-18689005773488539512009-04-07T16:26:00.000-04:002009-04-07T16:26:00.000-04:00Screamin' Spacey,Good points. Though I would say t...Screamin' Spacey,<BR/><BR/>Good points. Though I would say that "nihilistic" isn't the right term here. I think what Ebert's reaching towards is a sense of the inconsequential nature of the violence. <I>Virgin Spring</I> isn't a better film because it takes place in a Christian moral context or because the parents promise to build a church. What Ebert likes about it is that it shows that the taking of life has this moral consequence to it. I think it is open to interpretation whether or not the church is a sop to cover up a more bloody desire for revenge. But flicks like, say, the <I>F13</I> remake tosses its characters into a meat grinder without any moral or intellectual justification, basically bumping off folks for cheap kicks.<BR/><BR/>To take it to cases, Ebert think <I>Virgin Spring</I> is justified by its moral seriousness (which isn't the same as correct rectitude, you can be serious and profound in the depiction of moral abhorrent behavior). He also defended the considerably less philosophically ponderous <I>Kill Bill</I> films, claiming they were justified by way of artistic ambition. The violence in those films was not a meditation on morals, but an essential part of the artistic exercise of exploring all those various genres.<BR/><BR/>Something like <I>Last House</I> - and I must admit that I haven't seen the remake, so I have no idea if he's right or not – can't justify its existence on either level.<BR/><BR/>Though many would disagree, I actually think the much derided "torture porn" genre is, almost by definition, less cynical than the slashers that preceded them if only in that they admitted that violence and suffering are grim and unpleasant (in comparison to the done-and-next factory rhythm of slashers). That said, <I>Hostel</I>'s efforts to tie the violence of the film to exploitative bandit capitalism and <I>Saw</I>'s clumsy efforts to provide some philosophical/religious context at least suggested an effort (Earnest? Good question.) to place the carnage in some sort of meaningful frame story.<BR/><BR/>Talking specific cases, like <I>Hostel</I>, <I>Funny Games</I>, <I>Eden Lake</I>, and <I>Wolf Creek</I> gets trickier. I see value in some of these flicks, less in others. But at least these cases are worth discussing. That's what differentiates them from the slasher retreads (and most of the originals, for that matter): They're worth debating. Try to tease out the moral or intellectual implications of the slaughter in <I>F13</I> and you quickly realize that the film's been made to avoid any.<BR/><BR/>I'll admit to finding the inky black stuff bracing. Nihilism, honestly earned and squarely faced, is scary and engaging. The pop repackaging, which is basically teen snuff for quick cash, is just the Hot Topic version for the mall crowds.CRwMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07896615209770501945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-23068155688754550812009-04-07T15:53:00.000-04:002009-04-07T15:53:00.000-04:00I have a mixed reaction to Ebert's wishes. On the ...I have a mixed reaction to Ebert's wishes. On the one hand, yeah, of course I'd rather watch an intelligent horror film rather than a dumb one. I'm also much more interested in atmosphere and suspense than gore; immersion over innovation in bodily harm.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, "ugly, nihilistic and cruel" films are what I'm finding interesting in contemporary horror. I probably won't see Last House on the Left remake - it seems too much of an exploitive, cynical cash grab. But films like Wolf Creek, Hostel and Eden Lake fit that description pretty well. And I think that's what makes them interesting.<BR/><BR/>I could pick away a bit more at Ebert's review (is it okay to torture and kill the thugs in Virgin Spring because the couple admits what they're doing is wrong and promise to atone?) but overall I think it's a good review, and an earnest and introspective attempt to rate the LHotL remake. (What measure <I>does</I> one use to rate such a film anyway?)<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I should probably check out "The Virgin Spring" sometime.spacejackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902182763527176185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-68958619750021155252009-04-07T13:02:00.000-04:002009-04-07T13:02:00.000-04:00wiec?Proportionately, it probably works out to abo...wiec?<BR/><BR/>Proportionately, it probably works out to about the same.CRwMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07896615209770501945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-87096317527459323452009-04-07T13:00:00.000-04:002009-04-07T13:00:00.000-04:00so you don't think the Toxie musical will do for T...so you don't think the Toxie musical will do for Troma what the Producer's musical did for Brooks?wiec?https://www.blogger.com/profile/10309538159614542664noreply@blogger.com