tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post116550078357786418..comments2023-10-05T07:46:44.392-04:00Comments on And Now the Screaming Starts: Movies: Less fun than alligator bobbing.CRwMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07896615209770501945noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-1165687990970832432006-12-09T13:13:00.000-05:002006-12-09T13:13:00.000-05:00Mer-woman:Okay, I had to look up "fetish" in the d...Mer-woman:<BR/>Okay, I had to look up "fetish" in the dictionary.<BR/>I guess one definition has the fetish as an object that someone is obsessed with. For example, piercing or body modification, I guess.<BR/>Or bands with weird gimmicks.<BR/><BR/>Or, the idea i was more focused on, an obsession with a subject, in this case, torture porn, but could be someone with bare feet, etc., that triggers the libido. Which could mean the sexual drive which is what i thought) or just a strong emotional response (which makes just as much sense... but sex sells AND is closer to MY obsessions, hence my particualr distinction.<BR/>Although, for clarification purposes, my interest in these obsessions is more akin to Chauncey Gardener (Peter Sellers) of BEING THERE's response to things:<BR/>"I like to watch."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-1165602320276748062006-12-08T13:25:00.000-05:002006-12-08T13:25:00.000-05:00It was a very good post wasn't it cattleworks? Wha...It was a very good post wasn't it cattleworks? What you said about movies being a fetish to some people reminded me of something. It has nothing to do with the movie in question for this post but the movie I am thinking of sorta falls into this type of movie.<BR/><BR/>I was reading a magazine one day and came across an article about a movie called "Strangeland". It talked about this being a horror movie and the fact that Linda Cardellini (now of Scooby-Doo fame) could be found in it. I decided to find it. I had never heard of it but sounded interesting enough because Robert Englund and Dee Snider are both also found in the film.<BR/><BR/>Once I got to college I was surprised to find out that the movie is very popular with a certain crowd of people. Not because this is a horror movie so much but because it has a lot to do with piercing. The people that are really into that are also really into this movie. I don't know how true this part is but I was told they will show this movie durring get togethers that they have.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if piercing can really be considered a fetish but that is how I take it so what you said rings true a little to me.Heather Santroushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03225708725622936749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-1165600252505898742006-12-08T12:50:00.000-05:002006-12-08T12:50:00.000-05:00Wow.When I first saw that you added this post, I d...Wow.<BR/>When I first saw that you added this post, I didn't think it was so long ago since I had previously checked<BR/>your site, so man, was I stunned when I saw 10 comments already. Holy Rip van Winkle!<BR/>Great post. I think it's great that it becomes less a review of one particular film and more a discussion of a particular sub-genre of horror: torture porn. Particularly using THIS film as a springboard for the topic, with its less state of the art FX versus something like HOSTEL, etc.<BR/><BR/>And the extension of this sub-genre would probably be the faux "snuff" film, (followed by an actual snuff film, I guess) where there is even less of a story and we're just watching, supposedly, actual footage of people being killed, like Toe tag Pictures' AUGUST UNDERGROUND. I haven't seen either (HOSTEL or AU), but I read a review of the latter in Rue Morgue magazine, and apparently AU is pretty much a laundry-list of atrocities committed to various victims, captured with a video camera by the "killers." But these atrocities are much more mundane than the elaborate set-ups of SAW. Much more straightforward, perhaps with an element of degradation to the victim.<BR/>Of course, AU's notoriety is its apparent realism, that the FX are very believable, as if you're watching some discovered videos made by these maniacs.<BR/>On one level, it makes sense that to some hardcore horror fans, the scariest thing on film is something believable, something real, so our modern boogeyman has become something that exists, either a serial killer or a family or collection of individuals who have an agenda to kill because they can, instead of an old school monster or phantom. <BR/>Or more to the point, the idea that ANYbody you meet can be a homicidal psychopath, that, I guess, is edgy horror.<BR/>But then it seems the "appeal" for the viewer breaks down into either 1) the degree of believability/realism of the killer(s) and/or their situation (ie. "This could totally happen!") or<BR/>the porn aspect of it, just watching it to watch it, literally getting off on it.<BR/>One of my favorite film sequences is the opening credits to Pedro Almodovar's MATADOR, where the lead character, a former matador (now injured so he teaches), is watching TV in an armchair, sitting very close to the screen. On screen is a parade of murder scenes from what appears to be various Mario Bava films, like BLOOD AND BLACK LACE, all instances of women being murdered.<BR/>As this plays out on the screen, our matador spends the entire time masturbating.<BR/>Totally European in that it doesn't beat around the bush (um, oh, seriously, no pun intended, sorry) in juxtaposing and linking its ideas so clearly: murder and sexual gratification.<BR/><BR/>So, part of this theoretical discussion, in terms of what constitutes a successful horror film, is a discussion of who the audience is.<BR/>Because I'm wondering if, and I just articulated this to myself while typing, if a sub-demographic of the horror fan community likes their horror purely as fetish, so they may have an impatience for story.<BR/>Of course, that may be a presumption as well. I suppose some fetishists (if that's the right term in this instance)like more foreplay than others, so perhaps they may be more old school in their requirement for a story and character development.<BR/><BR/>Maybe this is all implied by simply calling these films torture-porn and I'm just slow.<BR/><BR/>So, anyways, I wonder if trying to "improve" the film is beside the point. Much like my impulse to "improve" a porno film-- not that I watch them regularly, but... aw, hell, screw being defensive. <BR/>Anyways, the lack of plot and character development always drives me crazy in porn films-- that's ALSO a contributing factor to hitting the fast forward button.<BR/><BR/>Crap. Am I saying anything?<BR/>I think... not.<BR/><BR/>Anyways, this was a great, thoughtful post.<BR/>And your rating was very telling of what you thought of the film.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-1165528065086352362006-12-07T16:47:00.000-05:002006-12-07T16:47:00.000-05:00Mr. S. Jack,I wrote about the Saw franchise awhile...Mr. S. Jack,<BR/><BR/>I wrote about the <I>Saw</I> franchise awhile back and, without getting into the long-winded (man, do I ever shut up?) rationale, I think that the <I>Saw</I> movies (when they're at their best) are actually victim-centric. The victims are the protagonists and whether they live or die is directly tied into what they do. I think anything that sympathizes so strongly with the victim escapes the cycle of meaningless shocks that are the telltale signature of torture porn.<BR/><BR/>But this stuff is hardly a science, ya' know? One man's clever horror flick is another man's poison.CRwMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07896615209770501945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-1165526409682323082006-12-07T16:20:00.000-05:002006-12-07T16:20:00.000-05:00Oh, one more that might possibly fit the genre wou...Oh, one more that <I>might</I> possibly fit the genre would be <I>Hard Candy</I> - another film I thought was expertly directed, doing a lot with a little. But very difficult to discuss without spoiling it.<BR/><BR/>In any case, I'm really not too interested in watching a movie for torture (which is why I've avoided Saw - my perception, from what friends have told me, is that it's more of a torture flick than Hostel.) Now I don't know what to think.<BR/><BR/>In a lot of ways, I tend to like horror just because it's often artfully directed without being pretentious, stars relative unknowns (which I find adds to the realism) and gets to play around with ideas in a less-restricted way than more standard genres.spacejackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902182763527176185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-1165521720175967062006-12-07T15:02:00.000-05:002006-12-07T15:02:00.000-05:00Heather,Now I'm doing the two comment thing.RE you...Heather,<BR/><BR/>Now I'm doing the two comment thing.<BR/><BR/>RE your comment about reworking it: if the cop/QB subplot actually had some meat to it and the was some tension about whether the ballerina would be saved or not, then perhaps we'd have actual plotting and suspense and the thing would escape the torture porn ghetto. I could see an interesting and good remake of this flick happening.CRwMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07896615209770501945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-1165521518874153682006-12-07T14:58:00.000-05:002006-12-07T14:58:00.000-05:00Heather,Leave as many comments as you like. I’m ju...Heather,<BR/><BR/>Leave as many comments as you like. I’m just glad folks are talking.<BR/><BR/>I probably shouldn’t have name-dropped <I>Touristas</I> in the story as I have not seen it yet. (Can’t convince anybody to come along.) Though consensus seems to be it is simply a reworking of <I>Hostel</I> with an anti-colonial spin, which is why it came up. When and if I finally get around to seeing it, I’ll let you know what I think.CRwMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07896615209770501945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-1165521162962458912006-12-07T14:52:00.000-05:002006-12-07T14:52:00.000-05:00Spacejack:I have not seen Wolf Creek yet. I've bee...Spacejack:<BR/><BR/>I have not seen <I>Wolf Creek</I> yet. I've been seeing mixed reviews of it, so I guess the only way to decide for sure will be to rent it myself. Consider it queued.<BR/><BR/>As for others, the <I>Ilsa She-Wolf</I> franchise traffics heavily in this sort of thing. The <I>Saw</I> franchise flirts with the subgenre, but, I think, ultimately rose above it (with the exception of the weak third installment). <I>Men Behind the Sun</I>, which uses Japanese WWII atrocities to justify its wallowing in torture porn, is another. We’ve discussed how I think <I>Hostel</I> counts, but you do not. It might be of interest that the audio-commentary on <I>BSF</I> is by Eli Roth. Notably, a teaser trailer he made for the upcoming <I>Hostel 2</I> contains an allusion to <I>BSF</I>. On the high-brow end of the spectrum, <I>Salo</I> is an art-house adaptation of Sade’s <I>120 Days of Sodom</I> by Pasolini, probably the classiest example of the subgenre.CRwMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07896615209770501945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-1165519555724337342006-12-07T14:25:00.000-05:002006-12-07T14:25:00.000-05:00spacejack: don't want to step on crwm's shoes here...spacejack: don't want to step on crwm's shoes here but will tell you what I think. To me Wolf Creek falls more into the slasher genre. I personaly thought that was a great movie. Sorry crwm, I was here posting my last comment so thought I would throw a comment on this one as well.Heather Santroushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03225708725622936749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-1165519292576601592006-12-07T14:21:00.000-05:002006-12-07T14:21:00.000-05:00I watched this one back when I was still getting t...I watched this one back when I was still getting the hang of doing reviews. Like you, I got really bored with it as the movie went on. Reworked, maybe it could have been an interesting movie. I'm not all that big into this subgenre but I did enjoy Hostel some. At least it didn't jump right into the torture, it actually made the attempt to set up a plot (not much of one but better than the one for this movie) and let us get to know the guys some. Have you watched Touristas yet? I was going to try and catch it this last weekend but didn't really have the money, maybe I can this weekend. Just wondering if you have yet or planing to?Heather Santroushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03225708725622936749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-1165518730006373782006-12-07T14:12:00.000-05:002006-12-07T14:12:00.000-05:00Have you seen Wolf Creek? I haven't seen any 'tort...Have you seen Wolf Creek? I haven't seen any 'torture porn' flicks that I can think of besides Hostel (which, I still think is only marginally so). <BR/><BR/>I'm not sure if Wolf Creek would fit into this genre or not. On the plus side, I think it's better directed, more efficient with its budget and has amazing cinematograpy, but story-wise seemed a little more pointless in the end.spacejackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902182763527176185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-1165511142339144332006-12-07T12:05:00.000-05:002006-12-07T12:05:00.000-05:00Haven't seen it. Though, weirdly, I'm kind of in l...Haven't seen it. Though, weirdly, I'm kind of in love with Lewis's <I>2,000 Maniacs</I>, and nearly every complaint made here could be leveled against that flick. Perhaps something about the framing device of the magical town and the honesty of the film (no supposed moral to learn, just gore) may appeal.<BR/><BR/>As an aside, I've got nothing against gore. Gore is cool as far as I'm concerned. My problem is that these sorts of films often have "plots" that have no conflict or suspense. Instead it is just one scene of abuse followed by another until the filmmakers run out of money. I find that really dull, lazy, and pointless.CRwMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07896615209770501945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34993991.post-1165509225940086112006-12-07T11:33:00.000-05:002006-12-07T11:33:00.000-05:00But how do you feel about The Wizard of Gore?http:...But how do you feel about The Wizard of Gore?<BR/><BR/>http://lillasmutzig.blogspot.com/Lilla Smutzighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07065905364060454766noreply@blogger.com